Why H2 forklifts? I imagine a combination of reasons. Closed warehouses, especially cold/frozen storage is not the place for burning propane (carbon monoxide) and lead acid batteries don’t care much for the cold.

Maybe they’ll stick with H2, but battery swapping with lithium-ion may be a less expensive route. Just design a battery pack that insulates the batteries. They’ll heat up as they are being charged and will give off heat while discharging.

As I said, I haven’t seen any onsite H2 systems that are impressive, even marginally useful. A couple of million dollar for a fueling station that can fill only 20 cars a day? Electricity and water extra. That’s not a solution.

Van Hool supplied 5 fuel cell buses to Oslo in 2012. It looks like they may have sold a couple of dozen elsewhere. Does this make them more than a demonstration? BYD is selling 4,000 electric buses per year in China and hundreds more around the world.

Overall hydrogen is just not a good idea. The main source is methane and it will continue to be as long as people attend to cost. Cheap H2 from water and electricity is only a dream. It’s very inefficient to go from electricity to H2 and back to electricity.

The Quant F hasn’t yet appeared, has it? And isn’t it some sort of exotic not intended to be a transportation solution?

Bob,

1. Flow batteries. More than grid storage? What about the hyped Quant F car?

2. FCEV buses: The ones used in Europe are mostly Van Hool buses with Ballard fuel cells. The Oslo buses have a long record, I heard that they work OK. Why negative about FC buses?

3. “Do you know of any ‘factory’ that is making green hydrogen and distributing it
to FCEV fueling stations?

”
Yes. Linde, Air products have such. Hydrogenics, H2Logic, Proton OnSite are a few on site H2 producers.
4. An unbiased comparison of fossil-free or fossil reduced energy sources is important, especially as a basis for green politics.
5. By the way, your sweeping statements regarding FCEVs did not include forklifts. There are thousands of fuel cell forklifts around. Why?

​I don’t know what is going to happen with flow batteries. At this point they are talking about trying to get down to $200/kWh while we have other battery systems (zinc, liquid metal, lithium-ion) aiming at $100/kWh.

And some of the battery systems project a very long cycle life (~30 years of daily cycling).​ The flow battery advantage is that by adding more tankage we can store a lot more energy for less money that with battery storage. (Pump-up hydro has the same advantage. Reservoirs can be sized to hold a lot of storage.)

I don’t see Panasonic/Tesla’s lithium-ion batteries becoming a major grid storage technology. They are focused on packing power in smaller space for EV use.

As far as “embarrassing” for the Gigafactory, don’t see that. Aiming at different market. P/T may sell some storage to end-users so they can optimize their solar or cut their peak use. I don’t see much use a the utility side of the meter.
—

If you know of any fuel cell buses that are superior to the ones covered give us a list and they’ll get worked into the ‘to do’ list. What I’ve run across, that we haven’t covered, wasn’t impressive. One (school bus?) company reported needing to purchase a spare stack because after six months use the stack had to be removed and sent back to the factory to be “dried out”. That was technology not promising.
—

A comparison of on site and transported hydrogen? Do you know of any ‘factory’ that is making green hydrogen and distributing it to FCEV fueling stations? (I’m seeing no need to cover the distribution of H2 from reformed methane. That’s no solution.)
—

“(A) biogas, biodiesel, bioethanol, hydrogen and electricity (for) transportation”

Certainly a lot of attention has been given to H2 vs electricity. Biofuels are individually covered. I’m not sure what comparison could be made since they aren’t in commercial use enough (or at all) to say much about them.

Bob,
Thank, I enjoyed some articles that I did not see before.
1. A lot of news on flow batteries. Embarrasing for the Gigafactory?
2. There is more to Fuel Cell buses than you state.

3. It would be interesting to see a comparison of on site with transported hydrogen.
H2Logic came out early, deserve a look. I think you are right, their stations were intended for starting up hydrogen distribution. I think their initial models had a limited capacity.
4. I also miss a broad comparison of biogas, biodiesel, bioethanol, hydrogen and electricity for transportation. Did CleanTechnica cover that?
Jonas

Vanadium flow batteries. About 15 articles, Five on Imergy. At least one on Gildemeister.

http://cleantechnica.com/?s=vanadium+flow

Two on ViZn plus several in which ViZn is covered.

http://cleantechnica.com/?s=vizn

A few on fuel cell buses and several in which FC buses were part of the story.

http://cleantechnica.com/?s=fuel+cell+buses

There have been articles about on site H2 generation but I don’t think there’s been an article that inventoried the various stations that are running.

http://cleantechnica.com/?s=hydrogen+on+site+generation

I don’t think CT has done anything on H2 Logic. Looks like their H2 stations are about like the Japanese H2 station we covered. Capable of fueling about 20 cars per day. Or is there something ‘more special’ about them?

Bob,

I can easily step out in loose sand, but here are some comments to your comments:

1. Alternative battery technologies to be covered are:

Gildemeister’s vanadium redox flow batteries. UET has doubled their energy density. Imergy say that they can produce a flow battery at 220$/kWh by 2017.

ViZn (zinc-iron electrolyte, cheaper than vanadate), Austin,Texas, produce Z20 grid storage units, targeting $200 per kilowatt-hour in the next two to three years.
2. Fuel cell buses.
The Whistler buses were scrapped because of clumsy hydrogen distribution, not malfunction. They were more expensive than diesel buses, which replaced them. A step back.
You fail to mention the many fuel cell buses which operate in the world today. Ignorance?
3. You fail to mention the stations which produce hydrogen on site today (like those from H2Logic) in Denmark, Norway, Germany, UK and Japan. Ignorance?
Jonas

Metal air – you mean aluminum batteries? They have been covered and at this time they are more of an idea than a product in use. Flow batteries have been covered in multiple articles but AFAIK there is no new news to be reported. (I have a Google Alert set for flow batteries and it’s found nothing.)

Fuel cells. I know of no where in the transportation world where fuel cells make sense.

The range difference between the Toyota Mirai and Tesla ModS with their new battery pack is about 12 miles.

Fuel cell buses were tried in Canada and ended up being scrapped. Battery powered buses are being sold in the hundreds.

Toyota set up an “onsite” hydrogen fueling station. The price was $2 to $3 million and could fuel only 20(?) cars a day due to the time needed to produce the H2. (I’m fuzzy on the details.)

Seems to me that CT has covered and covered FCEVs.

I don’t think hydrail has been covered. I’ll pass that on to Zach.

If you have specific topic requests or ideas send them in. The intention is to cover all potentially useful technologies.

Bob,
My impression was much more Tesla-dense. I frequently read about EVs and FCEVs. Without exact statistics, the bias that I talk about is mostly omissions:
Metal-air and flow batteries, what is hype what is realism?
Economy of electrolytic production of hydrogen on site. With a global perspective. The US situation is of interest, but gas price is especially low there.
In which situations are fuel cells clearly superior to batteries? The situation for long distance buses and trucks should be highlighted.
FCEVs have a range advantage.That argument will be shattered if battery energy density doubles. How much hydrogen can a four-seated FCEV have on board? They seem to be close to a maximum already.
The price of fuel cells has come down considerably. So has the amount of platinum in them. According to NREL their price is similar to a diesel engine. Yet there is much talk about fuel cells being extremely expensive and their inordinate usage of rare metals. Time for a moment of truth.

Hydrail is an interesting and economic alternative.
These are a few subjects which deserve more extensive coverage at Cleantechnica.
Yours,
Jonas Blomberg

What EV stories do you think should be covered more?

Who’s not getting their day in the Sun?

I looked through the last 100 articles on the site. Seven (if I counted correctly) were about Tesla or Tesla-related activities. Tesla not only builds cars like GM, Ford and Nissan. Tesla also is building a huge battery plant, getting into the energy storage business, and building a global network of rapid chargers. One might expect Tesla to get a bit more attention than the companies that are doing little.

What factual errors do you think have been made?

No, enthusiasm is important.
But impartiality and factuality is also. Otherwise you will quickly lose impact.

Jonas – Tesla is shaking up the world and showing how to get off petroleum. And do it quickly.

Do you suggest people not be enthusiastic?

The editor and one of the main contributors has an admitted favortism towards Tesla and great admiration for its CEO Elon Musk. Disclosure of this along with the fact that he is long on Tesla investments is usually included in these pieces and known to regular readers.
At the same time there are a wide variety of other subjects covered here by him and the other authors on a daily basis.
Yes Tesla shows up frequently because they are making such a difference in the adoption of EV’s in the US and foreign markets along with upgrades to their current product.
But if you will stop back by you should find something of interest to read in addition to that topic.

Sorry for coming with such suspicions,
Jonas Blomberg

I still fail to see what triggered that request. Was it just an off topic post?

Apel Steel Corporation in Cullman, Alabama

There is a “steel plant in Alabama with a large solar presence,” can’t remember where it was published though. Bob_Wallace may have needed a few more carbs just then!

http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/companies/solar-flexrack/news/article/2014/08/alabama-steel-manufacturing-company-embraces-the-future-and-goes-off-grid

I just looked around the San Francisco airport and couldn’t find a single anteater.

(What does your post have to do with anything?)

Welcome. The more good input we get the more we all know.

Perhaps you should look at some wind maps for onshore and offshore wind resources in Florida.

BTW, you must really be against nuclear which can only be built with taxpayer assistance and against coal which is supported by taxpayers to the tune of $140 billion to $242 billion a year.

Thomas, you are way off topic. Please follow site rules.

BTW wind + solar + storage = reliable and complete.

We already pay some industry to shut down when supply is significantly stressed. And some industry runs their most energy demanding processes late at night when electricity costs are lower.

We’ve also seen some studies that find that some commercial uses can be cut without causing even noticeable changes to workers or process. For example one building’s air circulation system was adjusted up and down to match solar input. Over time the same number of air exchanges were made but the flow varied with passing clouds.

It’s less likely to be government regulated but a financial arrangement with the power provider. EV charging, for example, will likely be commonly used as dispatchable load. The average EV will need about three hours of charging. Utilities could control the actual time of charging and offer low rates in exchange.

Utilities are going to be willing to sell power at a better rate when they have plenty in order to lower demand when supply is low. That will allow them to avoid bringing expensive peaking power on line.

LOL!!! FPL is the largest renewables developer in the nation (NextEra) and even their alleged incompetence won’t allow them to install wind in Florida because the wind resource is too feeble. If you are comfortable, Mike, receiving other people’s money at the point of a gun, then go for it. But other people’s tax dollars are required for wind and solar to be built, and failure to pay our taxes results in incarceration (at the point of a gun if necessary.) Your call, dude. But I would NEVER get into a business that can’t make it on its own in the free market. I would find it to be severely anti-American.

You sure do, but you also need a reliable and competent fuel set! Hint: Wind and solar are not it.

In addition, governments are mandating the consumption of wind electricity which produces counter to the cycles of electricity demand. The combined effect,then, is to have society bend to the whim of the weather.

But specific to energy efficiency aside from wind energy, the basic question is: What are the net, long-term costs and benefits of forcing society to bend to the will of the electricity system vs. continuing the paradigm that the electricity system is required to bend to the will of society? The answer is foundational to all other considerations.

Top left of page – “About” – drop down – “Contact Us”

check out http://www.shecenergy.com GREAT PRODUCTS!

I doubt anyone here has that sort of information. I’d suggest you spend some time Googling to see who makes a quality product and then contact them to see if they have a distributor in India or if they ship.

Here’s a company that turned up with a quick search for “solar powered street lamps”. http://www.solarstreetlightsusa.com/

I know nothing about them but I’d put them on your list and look for other companies. Then do your due diligence by checking quality and reputation.
CalTrans – the California State highway department uses solar lighting at some more remote sites. You might contact them and see if they have any recommendations.

Also, this could be a great industry for India. This is not a product that would take a lot of engineering.

Thanks a lot! 😀

Believe it or not, would love to cover about twice as many stories every day than we do. But it seems to be against the interest of our readers, and most certainly is against the interest of our writers (their pay would drop), so we don’t. 😀

But I kept reading it. Now I wish it came every hour.

Not really!!!! But thanks for being there and doing such a great job.in all respects:content, scope, concision, humor. Thanks!

Thanks!

it was a nice feelings..

 http://neuserivernews.com

Hi Frankie. Good to hear that you have been granted a patent on a tidal system called ECOFEW.L and many congratulations for the same.

Please visit the site http://www.triodos.com who are into funding such projects as well as http://www.chrysalix.com. There are a whole lot of investors waiting for opportunities to invest in new projects and one another is http://www.khoslaventures.com. Please feel free to contact me at any time for any further assistance on mazoun93@omantel.net.om

If and when you are able to internationalize your business do get in touch with us here in Oman at mazoun93@omantel.net.om and we would certainly look at the opportunity of working with you to introudce your technology in our beautiful country.

Wishing you all the best in your efforts.

Jaffer

BEAUTY HAS A NAME – OMAN – http://www.omantourism.gov.om

Hi Rafiq,

With regard to your request on the website of Clean Technicia, for specialized companies in the field of solar/wind energy for your project in Ghana, please visit the website http://www.urbangreenenergy.com which will provide the best, specific and perfect solutions that you are looking for and the email contact details are copied in this email.

Best of luck for your project.

With compliments, greetings and best wishes from Majestic Muscat.

Jaffer Mohamed Sait
Director – Corporate Development
MAZOUN GROUP
Sultanate of Oman

Mobile : (00968) 99264684

P.S for Conor – I have copied this mail of a prospect to you. Best of Luck.

Thanking you sir.

Vittal N Telkar.
Mail: telkarvittal@gmail.com